Thunder Laser DSP

Discussions and help on this commercial controller.

Moderator: twehr

Re: Thunder Laser DSP

Postby bdring » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:08 pm

Thanks for everyone's input on this subject on and off the forum.

I have decided against selling the Thunder Laser Controller directly for a number of reasons. You can still buy it from Thunder Laser directly and often find it on eBay. I will still support it on my 2.x laser with my drivers, the skin cutouts, etc. I will still offer tech support as best I can directly and through the forums.

My first reason for not selling it is that it goes against my current mission of being an open source laser and treating all control solutions unbiased and equally.

The second reason deals with the messy situation of who owns the DSP intellectual property and who will be developing it further. I wanted to make sure I fully understood before I got involved. I have heard more about the situation that makes it less desirable to get directly involved.

In a previous post I mentioned a break down between Thunder Laser and LightObject due to various reasons. Those reasons and/or opinions were not mine, they came from Thunder Laser. I have had a flawless record with LIghtObject and will continue to work with and buy from them in the future.
Bart
"If you didn't build it, you will never own it."
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Re: Thunder Laser DSP

Postby twehr » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:02 pm

bdring wrote:... In a previous post I mentioned a break down between Thunder Laser and LightObject due to various reasons. Those reasons and/or opinions were not mine, they came from Thunder Laser. I have had a flawless record with LIghtObject and will continue to work with and buy from them in the future.


FYI - I too have had a great relationship with LightObject; I have always been happy with both their products and their service. That is why I have given my time and effort to help BuildLog.net readers get the most out of their LO DSP controllers. The fact that ThunderLaser product owners can also receive benefit from those efforts is, in my opinion, a win for everyone. I am happy about that.

I have purposely stayed a little quite on the recent comments coming out of Thunder Laser. I had no facts to warrant making any public comments. In the last day or so, I have been able to gather enough authoritative information that I can feel comfortable saying the following:

  • LightObject and ThunderLaser have never had a business relationship other than as competitors.
  • LightObject has been in the business for about 3 years.
  • ThunderLaser entered the business about 12-18 months ago.
  • LightObject and ThunderLaser both purchased controllers from the original designing and developing company.
  • The original design and development company partners recently went their separate ways; the result of which is two companies producing competing products.
  • ThunderLaser is a distributor for one company and LightObject is a distributor for the other.
  • LightObject's supplier company owns the rights to the software (on the controller card). That is what makes a controller useful and provides functionality.
  • I believe that both companies license and ship the same CAD software from a third and independent company.
  • ThunderLaser's will likely continue to ship with the name PHCad. To lessen confusion, LightObject is shipping (with the new controller) a version named LaserCAD. LaserCAD has additional options to manage the new features associated with the new controller but otherwise has the same look and feel as their previous PHCad version. Again, I believe a third party company is supplying the CAD software, which acts as an interface to the controllers.
  • ThunderLaser is unlikely to be updating their controller with any new features until their controller supplier finds a software engineer to develop a new product for them.
  • LightObject's new product has extended features not available on the older controller. Their supplier appears to be very open to and quick at implementing new feature requests from LightObject.
  • The hardware (physical electronics) are similar, but have identical connections. This is due to both controllers being designed to be interchangeable with Leetro control products. (Like different manufacturers of the alternator in your vehicle - functionally and electronically the same, but physically may be different.)

I see no need to go any deeper into the topic than what I have posted here. Anything beyond that would be getting into what is likely internal business decisions made at LightObject, at ThunderLaser, or at the company (now companies) that develope and produce the controllers.

For my part - I am still a satisfied user and supporter of the DSP controller. I personally enjoy doing business with LightObject, and will continue to do so. I will also continue to help all users by contributing to the documentation and general knowledge base whenever and wherever I can. I have never done business or been in direct contact with anyone at ThunderLaser. I am sure their current product is fine and they appear to be helpful to BuildLog.net users.

I am sure there will continue to be some controversy over LightObject products vs ThunderLaser products. That is fine. It promotes competition. I believe that, over time, there will be even larger differences between the competing products. That is also good, as different products tend to find different markets and audiences.
tim
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Re: Thunder Laser DSP

Postby Speedythinker » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:47 am

Hi Folks:

This is Marco, the owner of Lightobject. The reason I'm here is because there was a rumour about my DSP card that I think I have to stand out to make it clear to the public. Lightobject did not and will not work with Thunder Laser. Lightobject didn't buy a single DSP card from Thunder in the past. Thunder didn't own the DSP card and they don't deisgn or manufactuering the card all.

Usually I don't care how those guy doing business (unethical tactics) as long as they didn't get me involved. But this time itis different! Thunder made a wrong accuse falsely to against me, the Lightobject, the 2011, 2012 DSP designer and the marketing team. The truth is: Thunder Laser is NOT a laser manufacturer. Thunder Laser is NOT a design company either. They are a small trade company with 4~5 employee located in GuangDong (Shenzen) by buying machine from other parties and put their logo on then make a claim that it's their machine they manufactured. The company owned by two guys, two named Mr. Chen (s). They entered the laser market in less than 2 years.

Here is a few misunderstanding & rumour being fooled around. See below:
In general, Thunder Laser is now saying that:

1. Thunder Laser (or their owners/engineers) are the originators of the DSP that they and you are/were selling.
Marco: This a shame. None of those guy know design. The card was orginal desgined by one of major laser manufacturer in Guangdong. Three guys left the company and setup a new company to redeisgn a new card that I named it V1. Then, a few year they formed a new company name PH (Chinese name: 深圳市普汉科技). The hardware engineer is Mr. Wang(王), Software engineer Mr. Lee (李), and the marketting guy Mr. Wei (伟).

2. LightObject was a distributor for Thunder Laser with the private branded controller.
Marco: That is BS! I never bought a single card from Thunder. Show us the invoice or bank transfer record. I bought all card from Mr. Wei and paid Mr. Wang when they're still operating the PH company together.

3. Thunder Laser has stopped their distribution agreement with LightObject and are refusing to sell to LO.
Marco: Give me a break! I can get as many card as I want. Mr. Wang even beg me to buy from him! If Thunder guy could stop the selling the card to me, how come I still can sell 2011 and 2012 card?! (note: even the model named by me!). By the way, Mr. Wei is very upset by their wrong acuse and decided not to sell them the 2012. Well, they may go through different channel to get the card but they can never get the card direct from my partner.


4. One of the Thunder engineers left the company and stole the controller design.
Marco: Another BS. Who, the engineer work for Thunder guy? Mr. Wang or Mr. Lee. The true is that Mr. Wei and Mr. Lee couldn't get alone with Mr. Wang after 3 years operation. Thunder sounds "loud" but there is no "rain" after that. Pretending BIG but got no gut inside. Thunder guy now stucked with 2011 card and Mr. Wang can't do any change on the softare. He couldn't even fix the Z+ Z- problem on PHcad v.47. By the way, Only my card comes with analog and PWM output per request.

5. LightObject now does business with that ex-employee/engineer.
Marco: Thunder man want to get new card from my partner Mr. Wei for the new 2012. That is the truth. But they are not Ex-empoloyee of Thunder. He wish! Even I was willing to signed a deal of buying 200x DSP card at a time I still couldn't get them work for me direct!

6. Your current product (2012 model) is from the designs taken from Thunder.
Marco: Not even closed. The Thunder guy know nothing about the 2012 card at all. He didn't even know that 2012 is a new design by Mr. Lee's buddy. The new card support X,Y co-ordination, BIOS upgrade, and X,Y origin forwarding while the 2011 stucked there. Plus, Mr. Wang is what the Thunder guy working alone with. He got no sources code at all. He couldn't even do any upgrade to the current 2011 card.

If anyone has a doubt, go to my forum (lightobject.info) and read the articals about the new update of the 2012 card. Before the new card lanuched, I asked my customer if any new features they wanted to have on the new version. That's how the new DSP came out with my little power.

By the way, I just update the software with my logo, and company info on the new software. Ask the Thunder see if he could do so. Or, ask the guy see if he can add any feature to whatever card he said he own. I don't care 1999, 2011, or 2012. Per request, I can do any change on the software to proof it! Plus, new software with more features will be luanched in 10 days per Mr. Wei and Mr. Lee.
The new software for the 2012 DSP card: http://www.lightobject.info/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=807

Marco
Lightobject.com
PS. Thank you for the support from Bart and Tim
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Re: Thunder Laser DSP

Postby r691175002 » Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:51 am

Thanks, its good to get a rather confusing situation cleared up.

It looks like lightobject will be the place to go for laser controllers.
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Re: Thunder Laser DSP

Postby steppenshoe » Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:56 am

Well you sure sound passionate, I am buying from you. :)
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Re: Thunder Laser DSP

Postby mikegrundvig » Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:45 pm

Well you sure sound passionate, I am buying from you.
Ha, I was thinking the same thing as I read it. Looks like a LO DSP for my project!
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Re: Thunder Laser DSP

Postby willyinaus » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:32 pm

I have dealt with Marco on a few occasions some time ago as I have a DSP from another company but drivers from him I have found him to be a honest and good guy and will help as much as he can and I probably will buy his 2012 controller for my next build with the results and service he provides.
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