Announcing the ORDuino !

Topics Related to the ORD Bot Printer

Re: Announcing the ORDuino !

Postby lx007 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:35 am

I'm interested! Especially at your target price. I currently have a RAMPS setup on my current printer, and it is too big, too hot and kind of ugly!
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Re: Announcing the ORDuino !

Postby Oli » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:18 am

Sounds great. Here are my thoughts:

- I think it should offer holes for the stepstick / polulu, but also have SMT pads coming off these holes for a new design of board that uses a castellation array on the edges of the board. It would keep the normal holes for compatibility. That way the new board could be easily hand soldered into place and two large castellation pads could be used at each end for proper heat sinking to the motherboard, something the current designs lack (proper heatsinking through the pcb). It is unlikely they will ever need to be removed if they are the current limited variety. See google images about castellation arrays on pcb. EDIT: or fully integrate into the PCB

- I am very against having an LCD and even to an extent the microSD slot- these are features the bulk of people won't use, but will add significant cost and complexity. The real point of this board IMO is to simplify things to a single board solution at a lower cost in my opinion. Not to mention the additional complexity of implementing the LCD etc. Remaining compatibility with existing off the shelf firmwares would be its strength.

- I think it might be worth considering including atx power supply sockets. They are used as the power source in most builds and modifying connectors etc is a real pain.

- I am slightly skeptical of the ffc type connectors. I know it would be a tidy solution and in principle a good one but they are not really designed for high currents. I guess we'll see. Costs on custom lengths of this ffc are what I see as another problem. I don't really see a big problem with normal low temperature / silicon cable provided it is routed correctly. I have another solution that I have PM'd you about.

Imagine having a single board that means that you can buy Barts kit, the ORDuino board for less than $150 and an ATX power supply to have it mostly complete. This would be a real winning formula.

Very exciting stuff :)
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Re: Announcing the ORDuino !

Postby butterfingers » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:53 am

Came across this that might be of interest:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/365 ... f=category
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Re: Announcing the ORDuino !

Postby dzach » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:04 pm

I like very much this community driven hardware development. It's like a dream come true :)

frob wrote:There's no such thing as a 3-layer board- the next step up is 4-layer, then 6, etc. they're done in pairs to prevent board warp, and the process just works out better that way- 3-layers would be more expensive than 4 and cause issues as a result.


I interpreted the drawing on page 9 in the Allegro A3988 Datasheet as a 3-layer PCB. Is it not?

frob wrote:That's an interesting idea to sell it as kit with through-hole parts unmounted.
i'll consider doing that for the initial run but not sure what if any savings it may produce ,because only a few of the optional connectors are actually through hole,

I have recently purchased a full RAMPS kit (including the Arduino) at $133 to accommodate the ORD Bot. The RAMPS came with the PCB and all components (SMT and thru hole) unsoldered. The assembled kit was at $173, that's 30% more. I believe it's a good idea to present a couple of options to the users to choose; some may find the price attractive, others, driven by captivating motos like "If you didn't build it, you will never own it", follow that spirit. You'll never know.
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Re: Announcing the ORDuino !

Postby dzach » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:12 pm

Oli wrote:I think it should offer holes for the stepstick / polulu.

I'd like this too. The ideal would be to be able to simply cut the copper traces around the SMT chip and use some existing holes to mount a spare polulu, like in the following picture (it's a stepstick):
stepstick.jpg
stepstick.jpg (15.41 KiB) Viewed 11547 times

Oli wrote:- I am very against having an LCD and even to an extent the microSD slot- these are features the bulk of people won't use, but will add significant cost and complexity.

At $10 a piece and optional, I'd say that's a bargain. SPI is a 4 wire serial interface, it already exists in all Arduinos and I'd expect to find it in an ORDuino too. That is the SPI interface, not the LCD or SD card themselves, which will be optional.
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Re: Announcing the ORDuino !

Postby orcinus » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:02 pm

As much as i love graphics LCDs, i'd vote against it in this particular case and for a text (character) display.
LCDs typically require more processing power from the host MCU and can be fussy about timings.

Dealing with a character display is much much easier.

Otherwise - can't wait :)
I was actually thinking of designing a board myself along similar lines (but have RAMPS on order, because my projects - like this one: http://chronoduino.orcinus.me/) tend to get a bit slow-winded and... deadish... :D)
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Re: Announcing the ORDuino !

Postby frob » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:06 pm

dzach wrote:...The ideal would be to be able to simply cut the copper traces around the SMT chip and use some existing holes to mount a spare polulu, like in the following picture (it's a stepstick):
stepstick.jpg

Thanks!
Thats exactly what i had in mind -
only that i would probably keep the "cut here" dotted line as 2 parallel straight lines just inside the 2 rows of connector pads for the pololu's - makes it easier to cut that way without accidentally scrapping something else on the board.

About the LCD and micro-SD:
Well i wanted to see if it appeals to some people.
it seems like it does so its going in the design. 8-)
If later there's little or no demand for it later, i may not populate the connectors when building a large batch of boards.
In the end these connectors add about $2 to the BOM so not really enough to annoy the folks that don't need it i don't think.
They're surface mount and quite small and tricky to solder by hand if you don't have a microscope and a neurosurgeon's hands and vision- the lcd connector is 0.5mm pitch.
So adding it yourself later is not a very practical option.
The SD card connector is pretty neat actually, it's very minimalist and holds the card about 3mm up off the board surface so it can "fly" above other parts -
thus it takes very little board space too -
in this case the card will hang over the top of the CPU - which works well for me, as i wouldn't want any of my ARM friends to knowi actually designed and built a board for a non-ARM processor :mrgreen:

Once in production i will make the design "open hardware" and publish schematics, layout, and bom with sources, so others can modify or improve on it. :D
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Re: Announcing the ORDuino !

Postby frob » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:16 pm

orcinus wrote:...(graphic) LCDs typically require more processing power from the host MCU and can be fussy about timings.
Dealing with a character display is much much easier....

I really like your Chronoduino project! neat!

What you say about graphic LCD's is true for TFT types mostly.
This is a monochrome FSTN type (same as char. lcd's) with no CPU driven timing at all, just a serial data bus, exact same communication protocol as character displays.
Converting ascii txt into bitmap fonts is pretty easy and i will supply code that does that so your printf(); statements will still work with no tinkering in the internals if all you want to do is display text.
You also get a ShowBMP(BMPpointer,X,Y); routine for free.
I plan to have it show the appropriate logo and product name in the correct font on boot-up ;)
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Re: Announcing the ORDuino !

Postby frob » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:43 pm

dzach wrote:I like very much this community driven hardware development. It's like a dream come true :)

I love it too!!
And its such a pleasure for me as the designer.
Normally in this job you're working for marketing executive with delusions of grandeur, and no idea what his customer actually wants or needs, and no idea what it actually takes to deliver what he's asking for - and wants it for free, and delivered yesterday. :( You don't normally get direct contact with the folks that will actually use and suffer with the results of your labor.
Its really refreshing and rewarding to design something interactively with end-users and get instant feedback on it and smart suggestions for useful improvements from folks that know exactly what they want and need and that express appreciation for the effort. :D 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) :D

dzach wrote:I interpreted the drawing on page 9 in the Allegro A3988 Datasheet as a 3-layer PCB. Is it not?


Do you mean this one? :
A3988PCBsection.png
A3988PCBsection.png (5.98 KiB) Viewed 11524 times

Generally when we refer to PCB layers we're talking about copper layers, not the laminate/prepreg (FR4) ;)

dzach wrote:I have recently purchased a full RAMPS kit (including the Arduino) at $133 to accommodate the ORD Bot. The RAMPS came with the PCB and all components (SMT and thru hole) unsoldered. The assembled kit was at $173, that's 30% more. I believe it's a good idea to present a couple of options to the users to choose; some may find the price attractive, others, driven by captivating motos like "If you didn't build it, you will never own it", follow that spirit. You'll never know.


Cool, that's the best price i heard so far - not bad if you are able to assemble it.
Where did you get it? i might like to get one to use as a working benchmark and test some code while waiting for my boards to arrive.
I agree wholeheartedly on providing a menu of options to choose from, especially when you're not sure which will be popular and which wont-
but i reserve the right to give you more than you paid for as a convenience for me; managing many different build options for low volume production is a logistics and inventory nightmare and may actually increase the cost significantly due to minimum batch size for each build.
If you want minimum cost, the FORD model 'T' approach usually wins : "you can get any color you like as long as its black"
In the end i think as a reasonable compromise, there will likely be 3 versions of pizza - plain/cheese only, all dressed, and house special (chef's choice). the house special will have all the most popular toppings (so no anchovies) :P
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Re: Announcing the ORDuino !

Postby frob » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:49 pm

butterfingers wrote:Came across this that might be of interest:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/365 ... f=category

Yes that is interesting - I have been giving serious consideration to doing my own Kickstarter project.
Whats interesting is that this project looks to be one that failed or fizzled, judging by the comments from backers and lack of updates from the developper since last summer.
i went to the webstore and could find no mention of this design anywhere, only a regular arduino board.
So it looks like they got in over their head and bailed. I wonder what happens in that case? did the money go back to the backers?
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