*soon to be* ORD Bot owners, assemble!

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Re: *soon to be* ORD Bot owners, assemble!

Postby kwando » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:08 am

Thank you.

Out comes my credit card.
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Re: *soon to be* ORD Bot owners, assemble!

Postby Liberty4Ever » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:33 am

I'm also new to 3D printing. I've been like the kid standing outside the toy store with his nose pressed to the glass for the last few years. I scrounged the parts for a post-kit Hadron that I'll be assembling this weekend, and I just placed an order for a second Hadron kit at Automation Technologies.

http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.co ... controller

I want to do stand alone printing so I'm adding an SD card, 4X20 LCD and rotary encoder with push button to operate the LCD user interface (later versions of Marlin firmware required). After I debug that, I should be able to provide some support to anyone who wants that feature. It seems to be getting popular, based on the fact that a lot of the Arduino/RAMPS auctions on eBay now suddenly include the SDRAMPS card reader.

I made a quick & dirty video of the modifications to a PC power supply to make a tidy 12VDC supply for 3D printing.

I just went away for awhile and did some video editing. The first video segment where I showed the power supply rat's nest of wires and explained each signal according to their color code was a bit confusing and there was some less than 100% correct info in that segment so I omitted it. There's probably still some useful info in the latter video segments and I annotated the missing info in the YouTube description. I uploaded the video.

Modifying A PC Power Supply For Use In A 3D Printer
http://youtu.be/CViScoX_1Nk
(6 minute video)

For those who want a good text based web page instead of a video, I got a lot of the power supply info here:
http://reprap.org/wiki/PCPowerSupply

I'm also making notes for a more complete bill of materials. Bart's BOM for the mechanical part was great (the PDFs of the custom part prints are particularly nice), but there are a lot of options for the other stuff needed to build a 3D printer, and having just suffered through the scavenger hunt, I can appreciate how useful having a lot more of the info in one place would be. I plan on putting together a Hadron BOM by sections. I'll list possible sources and current prices. Where there are options, I'll list all options I can find, making it clear that, for example, only one controller is needed and you can choose the Arduino/RAMPS, or Sanguino, or ORDuino, or Azteeg. It might be good to include notes describing the tradeoffs with the various options if possible. I'd probably post the big BOM as an ODS spreadsheet file so others could update it if they liked and keep it up-to-date.

Even at this late stage in my 3D printing quest, I keep stumbling upon new and very useful sources of information... and I've been reading obsessively for what seems like a month. For those new to 3D printing, I think it would be useful to have a top down document, with a brief introduction to 3D printing, followed by descriptions of the individual subsystems, with links to as much specific information as possible. It could be organized like a wiki, so everyone could add info. There could be a nested table of contents near the top of the document to make it quick and easy to go to any subsection, or sub-subsection.

I think part of the problem is, builders build. The open source community is a very powerful thing, but as good as it is, it still skews in the direction of not having enough documenting because everyone is too busy building and creating. Globally, we could all build a lot faster if we were supported by more organized information, so we all spent less time rummaging around searching for the info we need. When rank newbies develop an interest, they often don't know what to ask because they don't know what they don't know. They wander around the internet, inefficiently collecting little isolated facts while slowly putting together the big picture.



SpacedCowboy wrote:Oh yeah, and I've just pre-ordered the parts for the 2.x laser as well...

I haven't ordered the parts yet, but I've been reading and researching that as well. A laser is in my future.



SpacedCowboy wrote:I went whole-hog and got the $129 version (dual QU-BD extruders)

I guess I went whole hog, some side vegetables and dessert, because I bought TWO dual extruders from QU-BD. :o
Apparently, I didn't build that! :-)
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Re: *soon to be* ORD Bot owners, assemble!

Postby kwando » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:39 pm

Thanks for sharing Liberty4Ever.

I'll definitely be checking out your power supply tutorial for my bot set up.

I agree with you 100% regarding information on 3D printing available. A top down document would be a godsend. At this stage all us noobies can do is stalk the reprap forums and try to determine what is important to know or not. Without having a kit it is very difficult to comprehend even some of the terms being thrown around.
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Re: *soon to be* ORD Bot owners, assemble!

Postby Liberty4Ever » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:13 pm

kwando wrote:Without having a kit it is very difficult to comprehend even some of the terms being thrown around.

Hopefully, I'll have one of those Automation Technologies kits... after I build my first Hadron from scratch. :)

I've done a fair amount of industrial machine design, and one bit of 3D printer terminology that initially confused me was "mechanical end stop". From my experience with machine design and CNC equipment, a mechanical end stop would be a hard stop (metal on metal) or a soft stop (a rubber bumper), but in either case, it would be a device to mechanically stop the motion along one axis of travel. If all else failed, a mechanical end stop would prevent over travel that might wreck a machine. But in the 3D printer vernacular, an end stop is what I'd call a limit switch, and a mechanical end stop is a mechanically actuated limit switch, as opposed to an optical switch or metal detecting proximity switch.

The 3D printing term "hot end" is descriptive enough, but still seemed like an odd term to me. Not confusing, just odd. I'd have probably called it a nozzle, or a heated nozzle, or an extrusion tip.

Every field has its own jargon. It's part of the learning process.
Apparently, I didn't build that! :-)
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Re: *soon to be* ORD Bot owners, assemble!

Postby kwando » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:56 am

Hi All,

What do you think of this power supply for the Hadron? I've read in a few places where there is mention that 20amps is good amperage for the printer.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-12V-20A-240W-Switch-Switching-Power-Supply-Driver-LED-Strip-Display-220V-/120920308060?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Device_Power_Supplies&hash=item1c2769795c#ht_2587wt_1181

Cheapest one I'm able to find on ebay. I'm in Australia so the voltage is right for me. Those of you in the states may need a step up converter.
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Re: *soon to be* ORD Bot owners, assemble!

Postby Liberty4Ever » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:10 am

kwando wrote:What do you think of this power supply for the Hadron? I've read in a few places where there is mention that 20amps is good amperage for the printer.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-12V-20A-240W-Switch-Switching-Power-Supply-Driver-LED-Strip-Display-220V-/120920308060?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Device_Power_Supplies&hash=item1c2769795c#ht_2587wt_1181

If you're good with 220 VAC, that looks like a good option. I went a bit overboard with a 650W supply, but the 20A supply looks just about right for a heated build platform (typically 10-12A), a hot end (average of maybe 1A), and stepper motors (about 4A).

PS - If you'd like one that can use 110VAC or 220VAC input:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261024292592
Last edited by Liberty4Ever on Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Apparently, I didn't build that! :-)
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Re: *soon to be* ORD Bot owners, assemble!

Postby kwando » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:12 am

Do you think I should give myself a bit more of a buffer and just grab a 30amp unit?

It's not too much more expensive (only a few bucks) but the size is bigger. I was hoping to be able to mount the PSU to the ORD bot for a more polished look. Although performance comes first.
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Re: *soon to be* ORD Bot owners, assemble!

Postby Liberty4Ever » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:48 am

I doubt you'd see any performance increase with a larger power supply. I mostly got the larger supply because I thought I might abuse it a bit, either by running it in a cold environment where the heated build platform is on a lot more of the time, or more likely, a hot environment where it'd have a harder time cooling itself. I anticipate some large print jobs, running around the clock. I opted for a higher rating for hopefully more reliability in a demanding printing environment (much more than the occasional PLA prototype, printed in an office environment).

The converted PC supplies already have a bit of a conservative rating, as their cooling is designed for their full rated power, and you're only using the 12V supply, so you definitely shouldn't have any overheating problems with a converted PC supply as long as you aren't pulling more than the rated current at 12V. With the dedicated 12V supplies as you're considering, sold as an LED driver, the rated power is for 12V only, so you don't have the extra cooling capacity, but you should probably still be OK as most of the current is for heating, and the heating is much less than 100% duty cycle, giving the power supply time to cool down in between. You do need to rate it for worst case though. The new QU-BD extruder is available with an optional 40W heater. Worst case, when the printer is turned on, the heated build platform (as much as 12A) and the 40W extruder (3.5A) could both be pulling their full rated current for a few minutes. That 16A (192W) should be less than the rated current of the power supply.
Apparently, I didn't build that! :-)
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Re: *soon to be* ORD Bot owners, assemble!

Postby kwando » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:56 am

Gotcha. I see what you mean.

I shouldn't have any problems unless I slap on a dual extruder with 2X heater cartridges and a much larger print bed then...

Haha if it ever gets to that stage I'll gift myself a larger supply just for sticking it out that long.

Cheers for the breakdown.
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Re: *soon to be* ORD Bot owners, assemble!

Postby Liberty4Ever » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:01 am

I've been off shopping for cable track, for a pimp stylin' Hadron. The springs used for flexible cable routing, though cost effective, weren't doing it for me. For those of us in the US, McMaster-Carr's price on small Igus cable track isn't too bad at about US$10 per foot plus US$5 per axis for the two mounting ends. It's about 50% more than the larger and lower quality cable track I found on eBay.

I just know my second Hadron will be a lot easier once I know what I'm doing. :)

BTW - I'm not sure you'd need a much bigger power supply for dual extruders. As long as you stick with the one heated build platform (it'd be a fairly major effort to increase the size of the heated build platform), the added extruder shouldn't add too much more to the power supply requirements.
Apparently, I didn't build that! :-)
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