Intro - 3D Noob - Hadron build

Topics Related to the ORD Bot Printer

Re: Intro - 3D Noob - Hadron build

Postby jb92563 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:45 pm

Reprapdiscount's Ultimate Ramps package had a small 20mm bit of double sided aluminum heatsink tape with 6 little patches to apply to the heat sinks.
It works fine and is specifically for heat sinks so odd as it may seem, that is how they are attached.

I figured out how to hookup and use the fan on the D9 terminals and the electronics fan just connects to the Extruder heater D8 terminals and comes on when ever you are extruding.

The latest Marlin software was already configured for a 12v fan/2nd hotend heater in the software on the D9 terminals.

The only thing left to complete the printer is the glass plate.

I got to the bed leveling process and realized that there is no point to do that without the glass attached as the hotbed is not perfectly flat.

I also did another trial dry print and its all working nicely as expected. I should be printing this weekend.

Merf, you have a good point as the current mechanical endstops use GND and Signal. However the 3 pin mechanical endstops did use Vcc and were working and lighting the LED so I think I do have power on Vcc. I was thinking that perhaps theres something in software that the Halls need but I can not find any references to Hall endstops.

I opened a ticket with Reprapdiscount and they did not have any useful suggestions yet.

Honestly the only endstop that needs to be precise and repeatable is the Z-axis anyway so the mechanical endstops are fine in the x & Y axis.

In case you have not been to "Thingverse" yet there are dozens of improvements you can print. My particular power supply has a printable cover for the cable and adding a power switch for example.

Kapton tape? What do you need that for?

The only kapton tape I used was a small strip that was attached to the Hot bed and I used it to hold the hotbed temp sensor in place.

From what I have read when printing ABS you spray some hairspray or ABS disolved in acetone to help the print stay attached to the glass.
For PLA you lay down a layer of Blue Masking Painters Tape.
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Re: Intro - 3D Noob - Hadron build

Postby Merfman » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:27 pm

jb92563 wrote:Reprapdiscount's Ultimate Ramps package had a small 20mm bit of double sided aluminum heatsink tape with 6 little patches to apply to the heat sinks.
It works fine and is specifically for heat sinks so odd as it may seem, that is how they are attached.

I figured out how to hookup and use the fan on the D9 terminals and the electronics fan just connects to the Extruder heater D8 terminals and comes on when ever you are extruding.

The latest Marlin software was already configured for a 12v fan/2nd hotend heater in the software on the D9 terminals.

The only thing left to complete the printer is the glass plate.

I got to the bed leveling process and realized that there is no point to do that without the glass attached as the hotbed is not perfectly flat.

I also did another trial dry print and its all working nicely as expected. I should be printing this weekend.

Merf, you have a good point as the current mechanical endstops use GND and Signal. However the 3 pin mechanical endstops did use Vcc and were working and lighting the LED so I think I do have power on Vcc. I was thinking that perhaps theres something in software that the Halls need but I can not find any references to Hall endstops.

I opened a ticket with Reprapdiscount and they did not have any useful suggestions yet.

Honestly the only endstop that needs to be precise and repeatable is the Z-axis anyway so the mechanical endstops are fine in the x & Y axis.

In case you have not been to "Thingverse" yet there are dozens of improvements you can print. My particular power supply has a printable cover for the cable and adding a power switch for example.

Kapton tape? What do you need that for?

The only kapton tape I used was a small strip that was attached to the Hot bed and I used it to hold the hotbed temp sensor in place.

From what I have read when printing ABS you spray some hairspray or ABS disolved in acetone to help the print stay attached to the glass.
For PLA you lay down a layer of Blue Masking Painters Tape.


I hadn't pulled the double-sided tape apart yet, I thought it was just a single piece that required me to cut it apart.. I'll check, thanks!

After reading your accounts, I just wired in the min endstops. Hopefully they'll work! ;) Maybe I should just bypass headache road
and put in the mech endstops but I'd like to add a datapoint in case I have the same issues as you. At least I know to look for those
problems now...

Yes, been to Thingverse and wasted waaay to much time there dreaming of all the things I can "someday" make. The Z-Axis supports is
#1 on my list once printing. I'm kinda hoping another/better support is designed by then...

I thought the Kapton tape was required. Almost every build I've seen mentioned bubble-free application of the tape. Thanks for the
update, I'll just wait to apply once/if it's needed.

I haven't even addressed the glass plate mount yet... I still need to get another motor for my extruder, guess I need to get that ordered too...

Thanks to all!
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Re: Intro - 3D Noob - Hadron build

Postby jb92563 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:54 pm

Printed some Arduino circuit board fan mounts to hold the included 40mm fan that cools the stepper drivers/heatsinks.
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:166267

These are good first prints to tune your Z, extruder and bed temps and to get the 40mm fan mounted.

The prints turned out perfectly after 4 tries.

If things are going wrong its usually in the first couple layers and in my case was that the extruder was 5 degrees too hot.
Using the "J-Head" I have it set for 195 deg on the ATI Natural colored 1.75mm PLA.

My Z axis was also a bit low, scraping and pulling up the blue tape.
The mechanical endstop leaves it too high, so I compensated in SLIC3R by setting the Z zero position to -0.2, where as the best setting was -0.1 so the nozzle just clears the suface by a tiny amount.

When the endstop is triggered the stepper backs it up a bit and then advances slightly, but not quite enough to bring it to the proper position.
I wonder if there is an adjustment for that somewhere?

Just a suggestion, if you are mounting the Z endstops that it would probably be best to mount them on the z frame under the plastic nut piece.
Because if you misadjust your z too low, based on a carriage endstop, when your extruder touches the bed, it stops the carriage but never hits the endstop
and your z screws will wind all the way down and jam on the nuts and stall the motors with a high current.
Image
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Re: Intro - 3D Noob - Hadron build

Postby jb92563 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:31 pm

I found a nice set of tips/instructions for printing with PLA. https://www.matterhackers.com/articles/how-to-succeed-when-printing-in-pla

Last evening I printed this Oreo Cookie key chain for a friend.
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:42283
Image
It printed for 2.5 hours, which is a good test to make sure things are all working properly and came out nearly Perfect, requiring only a bit of sanding to remove the odd stringy between gaps.

Frankly I was amazed since making 2 parts that are supposed to mate together with rather tight clearances was a good test of the geometry and repeatability of the entire setup.

However, I still am getting some slight variations in the home position of the Z-axis where it sometimes drags on the surface or is a bit too high above it.
I need to improve the accuracy of my Z endstop and home position somehow.
Perhaps I need to revisit the Hall Endstop again.
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Re: Intro - 3D Noob - Hadron build

Postby seadevil » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:28 am

Merfman, Just got around to reading this build log. Nice!

Make sure those aluminum standoffs and screws don't short to anything on the arduino board. I think you are safe since they go into plexiglass (and not the handle plate) but just make sure. The solder mask will wear away under the screw and standoff over time.

Yes use the aluminum tape with the stepper heatsinks, and even then I put a fan on them. (I just hung it with hobby clamps until I could print a fan mount.) I used http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:30331 before switching to the Rumba board (which I love! see http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:163397)

Are you 12v or 24v? I got a 450watt 24v "LED supply" on ebay for $30 including shipping. I have a power switch on order (from china). I'll print a box to fit the supply/switch (http://www.ebay.com/itm/310570896389?ss ... 1497.l2649) Be careful if you are 24v. Most 40mm fans are 12v. (I smoked a couple, tried resistor dividers, and finally bought some 24v fans. qu-bd store.)

The heated bed... reprapdiscount has a new "MK2B" aluminum bed (3mm thick) http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Reprap-Blac ... 54010ec95e (There is also a 1.6mm version) In theory you do not need glass with the 3mm version. I'd like to try it since Al is a better heat conductor than glass. Assuming you don't have the 3mm Al board, you will need the glass to provide a rigid/flat build surface. I use alligator paper clips to hold the glass to the heated PCB. (copper side up, led side down) I put some non-conductive thermal grease in the small hole in the middle of the heated PCB. Use PTFE (teflon) insulation on the thermistor leads. (I got some with my extruder) and use kapton tape to secure the leads to the bottom of the PCB. (I am using a sheet of fogged glass from a glass shop downtown and it is working great! almost no need for ABS-juice)

While you are there you might want to insulate the bottom of the heated PCB. I put a sheet of "atic foil" on my build gantry plate. (Be careful not to short the thermistor or the 24v heat power) It really helped my heat-up time.

I went with the qu-bd MBE extruder. (In fact I recently bought a second one) Those are direct drive and use 1.75mm ABS/PLA. (I am working on a bowden style extruder with the ultimate goal of a dual print head with the heads as close as possible. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:193433) You just can't beat a $34 extruder and hotend! The qu-bd guys have decent prices on PTFE tube, kapton tape etc. http://store.qu-bd.com/category.php?id_category=6

On the firmware side, I've had problems with the arduino boot-loader after the marlin FW is loaded. (I've looked into it and even re-flashed my bootloader with several different arduino bootloader versions. This requires something like an AVRISP. I have one if you need it. The connection for it it is under the RAMPS board.)

Be careful with those stepper drivers. If you unplug a motor while a coil is energized you *will* destroy the driver. If you hand-move a stepper too fast you *will* destroy a driver. (I've killed two so far) I think I killed one by overheating it which in theory should not happen with the thermal protection circuitry.

I've been toying with writing my own slicer. In the process I developed some motor "exercise" gcode files that just move each axis around. I think this is a good idea to help break-in the machine and look for mechanical issues. I'll send the files if you are interested. You will want to "tune" the drive current in your steppers until they "sing", (no skipping and no hammering) with those pots on each board. Be careful not to overdrive the steppers too much as you are doing so. (This is where I killed one driver.)

Here are the z-wobble things I use: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:38534 (others probably work just as well. You will be amazed that the ord bot has z-wobble (I don't see how it translates into the frame?) and even more amazed after you add the isolation. I initially had problems with them hitting some stuff I hung on the makerslide)

Best of luck, randy
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Re: Intro - 3D Noob - Hadron build

Postby Merfman » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:22 pm

Many thanks to Randy for the detailed explanations!

Quick update from me: My extruder hardware kit arrived without the bearings and idler axle shaft.
I waited a week to get the bearings then discovered no axle shaft was included. Yesterday I went to
a Home improvement Depot who shall remain nameless and searched through their aluminum spacers
to see if anything might work. Astonishingly enough, I found a bin marked: 5/16OD3/4L - SCORE!
Exactly what I needed! Pulled one out of the bin, paid my $0.98 and drove home, marveling that I'd
actually found EXACTLY what I needed at this store... (that NEVER happens. If I need 4 something,
they have 3) - Anyway, got home, opened the bag and it didn't fit... looked at the bag with my glasses
on and see it says 1/4OD3/4L - heavy sigh...

Noob2Noob tip #2 - Always take your glasses to the HW store and double-check your purchase!
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Re: Intro - 3D Noob - Hadron build

Postby TLHarrell » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:08 pm

I run into the same problem every time I go. I spent 20 minutes the other night moving hardware back to the right bins as I was looking for specific sizes of things. I also pulled many empty bags, and bags where people had taken one of the two items out, tossed it all on the shelf above out in plain sight. I despise the way people shop, messing up the place. It's ridiculous.
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Re: Intro - 3D Noob - Hadron build

Postby jb92563 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:05 pm

Merf, I'm in the same boat with the need for reading glasses.

I'm going to print a plastic clipon case to hold my glasses so I can slip them on to my belt or pocket.
I hate hauling glasses around, frame is too fragile to stick in a pocket plus you dont want to scratch the lenses.

There must be a better way.

Ugh the hardware store small part bags issue is a peeve of mine as well. Some idiots always pop the bag open to steal just one of what they need. Like they are doing us a favor by taking just one.

They need to put a security camera in plain sight over those bins.
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Re: Intro - 3D Noob - Hadron build

Postby Merfman » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:01 pm

Glad to hear I'm not alone in my frustrations!

I got my axle idler last night and completed the extruder assembly!!! Yay! Then... I noticed that my extruder is
a mirror image of every picture I can find on the 'net. Every Wade's I found pictured on the net has the gear
set mounted facing outboard, with mine being mirrored, I can't mount it that way and the gears will only mount
(in the pre-drilled holes) facing inboard... I can't think of a reason that this might be a problem... ideas, thoughts?

I'll upload some pictures when I get home tonight...

What gauge wire have you guys used to wire up the heated bed?
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Re: Intro - 3D Noob - Hadron build

Postby seadevil » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:08 am

I'm not too familiar with that extruder. My guess is that as long as you have wired the stepper so that positive E (the extruder dimension) causes the filament to go the correct way you are ok. Just make sure you can adjust the feed tensioner, and maybe see/clear jams. I have had filament kink between the drive and the feed tube. (but that was 1.75mm)

I used a 24v ceramic heater cartridge for my extruder. It had high temp insulation so I used the extra cut-off from that to power my heated bed. (I used 14 gauge from the supply to the RAMPS/RUMBA. Note that there are 2 power feeds to the ramps. One dedicated for the heated bed. You could probably use just one, but I stuck with 2 in case there is any IR drop as the bed cycles.) I don't know if you need the high temp insulation for the bed or even if regular wire insulation is ok?
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