Baz's 2.x UK Build

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Baz's 2.x UK Build

Postby baz » Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:29 pm

I have being wanting to build a 2.x Laser for about a year now. When Bart offered the first batch of kits a few months ago, I was all for getting one but at the last minute bottled it and they where sold out within the day. That turned out to be a big mistake!
I have being looking for a kit for a while now and a week or so this post http://www.buildlog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1570 showed up in the for sale section. I quickly PM'd the poster and delivery to the UK was organised.
Now, after paying the customs charges the kit has finally arrived.
Image
Now that I have got all the custom parts, I am going to start ordering everything else. I will be able to use Misumi as they have a European division. However I will definitely not be able to use McMaster Carr, and I am currently unsure about Econobelt and Stock Drive. I will have to start finding UK suppliers.
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More like batch #5?

Postby bdring » Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:45 pm

Those were probably from batch #5. Batch #1 was about 18 months ago.
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Getting The Parts

Postby baz » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:10 am

My build is going to be a stock 2.x build with an enlarged bed size. A while ago I found this http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:12864. I was dubious at first, but I typed in some new dimensions, checked all the code, checked the output with the stock BOM, double checked it all and triple checked it all! There is news that two other lasers have being built from a BOM created by this script. The final dimensions I settled on where 600mm x 600mm x 100mm, there were a few reasons behind my decision. Mainly because I wanted a huge laser, but the materials I plan to cut come in standard sheets of 400mm x 600mm or 600mm x 600mm, so it seemed a convenient size. I thought about it a lot, and came to the conclusion that any size below 800mm squared would not compromise the performance and accuracy of the machine.

ModifiedWithSkins.jpg
Official Image
ModifiedWithSkins.jpg (22.64 KiB) Viewed 22145 times

So, now I have my custom hardware kit, I have no excuse not to order up all the other components.
First order went to Misumi; I used all the values had received from the script alongside this BOM http://0x0000ff.com/laser/ (Along with all the parts for the laser I ordered enough components to build 3 ORD Bot Hadrons as well)
I then placed orders at Light Object (for laser optics bundle), Stock Drive (pulleys (again got extra for the Hadron Builds)), Econobelt (belts, I got the correct lengths from the BOM the script generated), Mouser (DIN rail). All these vendors are US based and there International shipping seems to be pretty reasonable, however Light Objects was reasonably high.
The next big hurdle was to get all the McMaster Carr components, but not from McMaster Carr! I knew of a decent eBay store that sold every type of stainless fastener (My build is going to be completely stainless, the price above zinc plated was hardly worth complaining about, ~5p extra for a 100 pack) (FYI eBay UK seller massiveattack007) I managed to order all the metric hardware from them, as well as the imperial washers etc.
Next I went in search of some of the not fastener parts in the McMaster Carr order. I managed to find most of them on eBay at good prices, i.e. grommets, spring washers, imperial bearings, drive shaft rod (My dimensions where different due to the extended x axis, I also went for solid stainless steel 1/4" rod to reduce flex and twist). One component I was unsure about where the z axis lead screws, they were 1/4"-20 which after a search through my machining book turned out to be 1/4" 20 tpi BSW (Witworth thread).
The next components (which previously would have being expensive to get hold of) could be crossed of my list straight away, I think my laser will be the first to be built with European MakerSlide and accessories!
I still have a few imperial bolts still to get from the McMaster Carr list (they seen hard to find?), I also managed to get some spacers from Radishworks, which has saved me some time on the lathe!
I have delved into the electronics a bit, purchasing limit switches, e-stop, current digital display (from light object) and stepper motors at a brilliant price of £10 each, but have still got a bit to go.

Still to order are;
Electronics-controller, wires, PSU, etc.
Air pump and hosing (air assist nozzle, might make my own like this http://www.buildlog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=583#p4416)
Water pump (got hosing from Light Object)
Fume extracting system
Bed surface
Skins and window (unsure yet)
Cable chain
Laser tube and power supply
Few bits of imperial hardware
Last edited by baz on Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DSP

Postby baz » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:42 am

baz wrote:Still to order are;
Electronics-controller, wires, PSU, etc.


This is my biggest question so far, DSP or no DSP?
I know a DSP has major advantages, can save a lot of time, blood, sweat and tears. But is it really worth the money?
I am on a pretty tight budget, but I plan to use the finished laser to make a bit of pocket money, so would a DSP pay for itself in the long run?
I have looked around the forum and everywhere I see people mentioning how they started with Mach3, got sick of it and bought as DSP. I have also asked a few people for advice and they all said to save my self some hassle and buy a DSP. I really should take this advice and get one bought, but it’s a lot of money and I want to make sure I make the right decision.
I thought it might be possible to get a used/second hand DS for a bit of a knocked down price, but I can’t find one.

My other options are to use the Mach3 like Bart’s original design or EMC. EMC looks the more promising of the two with the development shown here https://github.com/jv4779/2x_laser. However my only parallel port PC is an old laptop, it is more than adequate for Mach3 on my ShapeOko but I wouldn't have thought it could cope with anything to high speed like laser control.

Yet another option is to use the Lasersaur set up, they have a simple arduino shield with 2 stepper drivers (only 2 drivers means the z axis would have to be manual), the system looks good and the control app/GUI is pretty neat and simple. I noticed recently they had changed the electronics to have a Beaglebone and 3 drivers, I am unsure of any details (they don’t particularly like sharing) but its promising, however from what I saw the new setup is getting quite expensive, DSP sort of money!

Has anyone got any advice or other options?
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Re: Baz's 2.x UK Build

Postby Techgraphix » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:25 pm

I should use the ShapeOko first to generate some extra dollars and buy a DSP.. If you don't it feels like stealing from your own wallet..
I know some people try to postpone this expense and until then they only have half the laser..

If you can't afford it: don't even start with it...Unless ........

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Re: Baz's 2.x UK Build

Postby Gadroc » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:26 pm

I feel the DSP is more than worth it's cost.

DSP vs Software (Linux EMC, Mach, etc) - You'll be dedicating nearly as much computer hardware in cost to the machine as the DSP costs. It's really not worth the hassle in my opinion. The DSP can be driven across the network or via USB (direct or saving work files to flash drive), meaning no dedicated PC to run the laser. If you have older hardware just sitting there you're still going to buy stepper drivers and a interface board.

DSP vs Open Source Hardware (Lasersaur, Azteeg, RAMPS, etc) - If you want to tinker with the software that runs the laser or otherwise want to contribute to one of these projects this might be a cool option. Otherwise, I'm not sure if it has any benefits as after you buy the driver boards, shields, display, necessary buttons and beagle/arduino board it's really going to be with in spitting distance ($100-$200) of the cash you'd plop down on a DSP setup.

Lastly I don't think any of those options are viable at this point to do a lot of engraving. They are mostly focused on cutting. It can be done but you'll spend nearly as much time futzing with the setup as you will making things.
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DSP, more parts and desicions

Postby baz » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:47 pm

Kees and Gadroc, thanks for the help and information. I am planning to use my laser to turn some profit and after a lot of maths, figured that if I did get the DSP I would still be under the investment budget I had previously planned.
I did a bit more reading up on the topic and what you put here pretty much sums it all up.
Gadroc wrote:DSP vs Software (Linux EMC, Mach, etc) - You'll be dedicating nearly as much computer hardware in cost to the machine as the DSP costs. It's really not worth the hassle in my opinion. The DSP can be driven across the network or via USB (direct or saving work files to flash drive), meaning no dedicated PC to run the laser. If you have older hardware just sitting there you're still going to buy stepper drivers and an interface board.
DSP vs Open Source Hardware (Lasersaur, Azteeg, RAMPS, etc) - If you want to tinker with the software that runs the laser or otherwise want to contribute to one of these projects this might be a cool option. Otherwise, I'm not sure if it has any benefits as after you buy the driver boards, shields, display, necessary buttons and beagle/arduino board it's really going to be within spitting distance ($100-$200) of the cash you'd plop down on a DSP setup

So I will order my DSP from light object in the next couple of days.

On another note; a few hardware components came in today (steppers, bearings, z-axis lead screws, washers, drive shaft, etc.)
Image
I also managed to order some more components including both my air assist pump http://first4fish.co.uk/product_detail.asp?id=83&cat=16&range=18 and cooling pump http://first4fish.co.uk/product_detail.asp?id=48&cat=16&range=17
I also managed to sort out the imperial hardware I thought I was missing, turns out I was looking at an old drawing for the idlers (before they were upgraded to the dual bearing smooth idler pulleys)

Next on my list, after the DSP, is the Laser tube and power supply. I plan to purchase from lovehappyshopping on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370550327393. Most of their sock is in Hong Kong but I managed to find one that was stocked in the UK. This will mean quicker delivery and also a lower chance of breakage because it has already done the overseas traveling.
I am also starting to think about skins and bed surface, I have seen that aluminium egg crate is quite the thing to have nowadays, but I can’t seem to find a supplier here in the UK (especially for a 600x600 sheet)
Has anyone got any recommendations on an alternative or a supplier?

Thanks

Baz
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Re: Baz's 2.x UK Build

Postby kbob » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:52 pm

Gadroc wrote:I feel the DSP is more than worth it's cost.

DSP vs Software (Linux EMC, Mach, etc) - You'll be dedicating nearly as much computer hardware in cost to the machine as the DSP costs. It's really not worth the hassle in my opinion. The DSP can be driven across the network or via USB (direct or saving work files to flash drive), meaning no dedicated PC to run the laser. If you have older hardware just sitting there you're still going to buy stepper drivers and a interface board.

DSP vs Open Source Hardware (Lasersaur, Azteeg, RAMPS, etc) - If you want to tinker with the software that runs the laser or otherwise want to contribute to one of these projects this might be a cool option. Otherwise, I'm not sure if it has any benefits as after you buy the driver boards, shields, display, necessary buttons and beagle/arduino board it's really going to be with in spitting distance ($100-$200) of the cash you'd plop down on a DSP setup.

Lastly I don't think any of those options are viable at this point to do a lot of engraving. They are mostly focused on cutting. It can be done but you'll spend nearly as much time futzing with the setup as you will making things.



Your argument is convincing. The cost difference is small; the DSP is probably easier to set up; and there is a significant functionality gap.

But I'm still feeling the urge to build my own software stack. I think it will be a lot of fun, and I'll learn a tremendous amount about motor control and real time programming (and debugging). Maybe I should have a DSP standing by for those times when I just want to cut something, though... (-:
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Re: DSP, more parts and desicions

Postby TLHarrell » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:10 pm

baz wrote: I plan to purchase from lovehappyshopping on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370550327393. Most of their sock is in Hong Kong but I managed to find one that was stocked in the UK. This will mean quicker delivery and also a lower chance of breakage because it has already done the overseas traveling.


You haven't seen their packaging yet, have you. I could imagine it'd take being dropped off a roof. I still have tons of foam and bubble wrap that I'm trying to use up from that monster.
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Re: Baz's 2.x UK Build

Postby Fred » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:57 pm

I'm UK based and considering a laser build at some point (to go in the queue with all the other projects in the pipeline) so will be keeping an eye on how yours is going.

I was going to wait until Makerslide was in available in the UK. I only just realised that that's your Ulele campaign too!
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