1.75mm or 3mm filament and nozzle size?

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Re: 1.75mm or 3mm filament and nozzle size?

Postby IPvFletch » Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:02 pm

Awesome work Gijs.. I think that will work great!! I also agree with your assessment of legs off the top extruder mount plate there, it would be too flimsy so they are right where they should be with your new adapter.

I wonder if a Wades type extruder could mount to it with it facing that way though? I think on a Wades the motor is mounted sideways (perpendicular to the extruder housing) so it might stick out (Y axis ways) or run up against the back plate of the carriage. Can you check paste one in so we can see the clearance? Thanks!!

From what I'm reading on various reprap sites, a large percentage of folks will be using a Wades (variant) extruder.. I'm also reading a lot of good things about the NEW Budashnoz... :twisted:
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wade extruder source files?

Postby Gijs » Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:10 pm

I'm looking for the right source files for the extruder. preferably step format, not stl or scad. Anyone?
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Re: wade extruder source files?

Postby WhiteB0rd » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:42 pm

Gijs wrote:I'm looking for the right source files for the extruder. preferably step format, not stl or scad. Anyone?


http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:17030 might be what you're looking for. He has several mounts in the scad source I believe.....

Nice work with the adaptor design. If I had a working bot, I could probably print one. Damn chicken-egg thing......


Seriously, what are our options to either get a batch of these adaptor plates run off (preferably anodized to match the ORD bot), or to get the budaschnozzle guys to produce a modified version for us?



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with wade attachment

Postby Gijs » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:50 pm

yes, that's what I found. I can't really work with scad though, since it cannot output step or equivalent.

I quickly modeled over the stl to get some feel for the whole assembly. I am not sure if this is a workable solution, since the motor is quite fare from the makerslide.

ORD-budaschnozzle-with-wade-01.jpg
ORD budaschnozzle with wade


ORD-budaschnozzle-with-wade-02.jpg
ORD budaschnozzle with wade
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Re: 1.75mm or 3mm filament and nozzle size?

Postby IPvFletch » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:54 pm

Thanks Gijs. That was my fear... I wonder if you mounted the extruder mounting plate a little higher so the motor could be flipped 180' and be mostly above the wheels of the carriage?? *shrug*

Or maybe we can find a way to rotate the wades 90' so the motor sits better, like the extruder Bart is using... ??
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Re: 1.75mm or 3mm filament and nozzle size?

Postby Gijs » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:32 pm

Both are not an option, I've tried several configurations. If you rotate 90 degrees, there is not much to win, you can see in the top view that the distance of the extrusion center to the right side of the motor is a lot larger than what it is now. This means the nozzle will be a lot farther from the gantry than it is now. Moving the motor upward is not possible, because then the extruder won't be below the carriage plate anymore. You can see this in the front view. So far this seems a clunky solution. I would prefer to use a geared motor like the makergear one, maybe lulzbot can even start offering such a complete solution.
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Re: 1.75mm or 3mm filament and nozzle size?

Postby Enraged » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:41 pm

If you are going through this much work, have you considering designing an extruder specifically for the ORD Bot? Possibly intergrate the metal carraige plate and its mounting holes into the design? If the big gear was on the makerslide side of the plate, that would make the whole thing more compact.
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Re: 1.75mm or 3mm filament and nozzle size?

Postby frob » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:11 am

Enraged wrote:If you are going through this much work, have you considering designing an extruder specifically for the ORD Bot? Possibly intergrate the metal carraige plate and its mounting holes into the design? If the big gear was on the makerslide side of the plate, that would make the whole thing more compact.


Completely agree - i am hoping someone comes up with a better design than whats currently on offer, no disrespect to the wonderful folks and hard work that went into getting DIY 3D printer technology this far - but considering how fast, sleek, inexpensive and elegant the ORD-bots are in comparison, i think (pardon the pun) that a quantum-leap in extruder technology is needed here. I know Bart did some work early on in this direction but luckily for us he focused his efforts in a different direction which brought us Makerslide and OrdBots. Though i'd love to tinker with it, I also have enough on my plate to keep me buried in projects for the next decade-
But i do have a bunch of ideas i'd bring to the discussion if someone wants to work on this problem with a community of motivated future customers online here to support that :)

I think most of the current designs are what they are in part due to the expected constraint that they should be printable - nice if you're entire printer platform is printable, but as the ORDbot has shown (which isnt) that's and extremely limiting constraint when it comes to cost, performance, and and a lot of other aspects. So for an ORDstruder i'd strart with a blank slate and specifically rule out self-printability as a requirement. And set a speed objective of 1m/s. That probably implies a longer heater tube, to give time for heat to penetrate the filament.
Using cheap commercial geartrain is OK. Even laser-cut acrylic would probably be better. hell why not more timing belt & pulleys since they're already a major part of the ORD design? Plus there are some pretty cool engineering plastics you can get now that are great at high temperatures, lubricious, or insulating, even all 3, that can be cut on a laser cutter, or CNC-machined, for housing and brackets and such.
For really high temp stuff you can even get 3D printed ceramics (and cheap too) from Shapeways. Even stainless steel and other unexpected cool materials.
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Re: 1.75mm or 3mm filament and nozzle size?

Postby WhiteB0rd » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:38 am

Well, Weighing in....

I think we should stick to printable for the extruder. It's apparently one of the key variables in print quality, and is still evolving. I want to be able to improve and upgrade by printing my own.

The Budaschnozzle is my current favorite hot end, and if we can figure out the mount, that's the hot end I want.

Wade's looks like it will work, but "reverse" mounted, with the gearing closest to the gantry. Not optimal for adjustments and maintenance, but workable.

I'm not an engineer, but it looks to me like we could redesign the extruder body to locate the stepper in the 10-02 oclock range, possibly even feeding the filament in at a slight angle to facilitate clearance, and rotate the body 180 on Y so that gears would be farthest from the gantry. It looks to me like it would clear the bracket on the top, but not sure if it would then collide with the Y axis towers while traversing X.

Alternatively, redo the geartrain so that there's a worm gear involved and a 90 degree turn. Mount the stepper with the rotational axis of the motor parallel to Y. Beyond my skill set, but I wonder if that would work....




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Re: 1.75mm or 3mm filament and nozzle size?

Postby butterfingers » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:24 am

Interesting that the Budaschnozzle uses a copper element, presumably to keep the filament feed cool and prevent pre-melt problems. Give that the ORD Bot uses an aluminium carriage, is there no way to use the carriage itself as a heat sink?
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